There was an error in this gadget

Friday, January 28, 2011

New Streghe on the block?

OK, so over the past few weeks, there has been an uproar about some people who are claiming to be streghe from Italy coming to the US and teaching "the mysteries of the Great Rite".  Folks have been asking me to comment on them and their validity/authenticity.

Without meeting them, I can not comment on either their validity or authenticity.  Witchcraft (by any name) in Italy is incredibly diverse so it's possible that they are both valid and authentic. It's also possibly that they're trying to make a quick buck on the gullible pagans (sheeple) in the US who fall for the "but they're from XYZ and claim BlahBlahBlah so they must be TRUE".  Without meeting them in person, I can not offer an opinion on anything other than their press releases.

So far, it appears that whatever it is that they do, it has nothing to do with the type of Italian Craft that I was passed by Leo Martello and Lori Bruno. Why do I state this?  Because on one of their recent blogs, they draw a connection between Leo and their own Tradition.

The blog in question is here:  http://thegreatrite.blogspot.com/2011/01/leo-martello-and-del-lago-stregheria.html.
My response is reproduced here:
"Rev. Vincent Russo, arsenic.com said...
I don't think that it is in any doubt amongst Streghe in the USA that Leo did import a valid and authentic Witchraft tradition of Sicily/Italy. However, I am a bit confused when you say, "The town has always spoken of Leo Martello's Grandmother, a great witch and perpetuator of the del Lago Stregheria family and tradition". To the best of my knowledge, as one of this students and adopted family, Leo did not practice the "del Lago tradition" or the tradition of the del Lago family. He practiced what he simply referred to as the "Strega Tradition" which he defined as the witchcraft traditions of HIS family. He did not claim to speak for the myriad of other traditions peppered through the Italic cultures. Granted, he was trained by members of his own family as well as members of other families, initiated into Continential Witchraft and various traditions of what is now known as BTW, and supplimented what was passed to him with his own research, experience, and gnosis. But, he never claimed that his family was a perpetuator of del Lago Stregheria.

So, just to be clear:  these folks may or may not be authentic or valid.  It's not my call to make and I have not met them personally so I am not yet in a position to comment.  However, Leo Martello is not part of their tradition and his name shouldn't be linked to their tradition.

I do know that the material that they claim to be presenting to the public in their workshops is not material that Leo would have made available to in a public setting.

I am sure that I will be posting more on this topic as time goes on especially since a number of us will be traveling to Pantheacon to meet them for ourselves.

Benedizioni,

---Vincenzo

15 comments:

  1. What you are posting here is a misunderstanding (let us hope that it is not a deliberate misprepresentation) of what our family actually published.

    Dianus, as a gesture of good will, merely gave you the few scraps of information that he knew about Leo Martello and the "del Lago di Pergusa" Stregheria family. We also have followed up, which you fail to mention.

    You are correct that there is no direct relationship between Leo Martello and the "del Bosco Sacro" Stregheria family. We never even suggested that. Such a notion is entirely your own invention.

    We do not question your legitimacy, nor do we require your verification nor approval for ours.

    The authenticity and effectiveness of our teachings speak for themselves, as you will discover at Pantheacon.

    Bearing the torch of Diana Lucina,
    Lupercus del Bosco Sacro

    ReplyDelete
  2. Quote:
    What you are posting here is a misunderstanding (let us hope that it is not a deliberate misprepresentation) of what our family actually published. EndQuote

    If it was a misunderstanding,it was based on what was read off the material presented. quote - "The town has always spoken of Leo Martello's Grandmother, a great witch and perpetuator of the del Lago Stregheria family and tradition." Leo was not part of the del Lago Stregheria family and tradition. I just got off the phone with Lori (his executor) to confirm. Perhaps your information was incorrect?

    Quote:
    Dianus, as a gesture of good will, merely gave you the few scraps of information that he knew about Leo Martello and the "del Lago di Pergusa" Stregheria family. We also have followed up, which you fail to mention. EndQuote

    What followup? On the blog? Yes, Dianus was very well spoken and cleared up some of the misconception after this was already posted.

    Quote:
    You are correct that there is no direct relationship between Leo Martello and the "del Bosco Sacro" Stregheria family. We never even suggested that. Such a notion is entirely your own invention. EndQuote

    The post that I was referring to seemed to imply that, not just to myself, but to others. All well and good if it was a simple misunderstanding.

    Quote:
    We do not question your legitimacy, nor do we require your verification nor approval for ours. EndQuote

    And as already stated: "So, just to be clear: these folks may or may not be authentic or valid. It's not my call to make and I have not met them personally so I am not yet in a position to comment."

    Quote:
    The authenticity and effectiveness of our teachings speak for themselves, as you will discover at Pantheacon. EndQuote

    It's more the nature of the material presented that is in question from my perspective. It automatically makes me suspicious when I see material that is inconsistent and/or incomplete and only natural (and healthy) to question it. I don't know you well enough to comment on the actual validity or authenticity of you and have no desire to do so. I do, however, reserve the right to express my opinion based on the material presented, especially when I am asked to do so. Consider it along the lines of constructive criticism.

    The more I read from/of you (such as your response here http://thegreatrite.blogspot.com/2011/01/leo-martello-and-del-lago-stregheria.html ), the more it seems like you're itching for a fight and I won't play that game. I hope that this can be chalked up to a misunderstanding and poor presentation of material.

    Benedizioni,

    ---Vinnie

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hi Vinnie,

    Calling people the "used car salesmen" of Stregheria is not a very good way to win friends or influence people.

    Notwithstanding, we have been trying to contact Lori Bruno for months to speak to her directly and try to head off the sort of nonsense that is embarrassing the whole of Stregheria presently. Raven Grimassi has told us on numerous occasions that he was trying to arrange a conference between Lori Bruno and APS Diana.

    Please write me at lupercus@stregheria.us and I will give you my phone number so that you can speak directly with APS Dianus and AP Diana. Please understand why I do not want to publish my private number here.

    Bearing the torch of Diana Lucina,
    Lupercus del Bosco Sacro

    ReplyDelete
  4. Lupercus is apparently posting things piecemeal on his own website claiming that I am being dishonorable by raising questions and criticizing the available "public" material. That alone speaks volumes of his character. My reply to his most recent accusation is as follows:
    "Posting one message form a closed group without context is dishonorable. Shame on you Lupercus. Don't blame me for whoever wrote the PR. Take it as constructive criticism. Be honorable and post this reply since my others seem not to have been posted either."

    Let's see if that appears since my other responses to him haven't.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Wrong, that is NOT what I said and to purposefully misquote me is despicable. Again, I say SHAME. What I said was that the WEBSITE "seems like it’s a bunch of cobbled together google results melded with used car sales advertisements". The WEBSITE. I said nothing about personal character although how YOU are acting speaks volumes to that. As for contacting Lori, her information is public so I have a hard time believing that you have been trying for months. If you want, you can email me at custserv@arsenic.com with Diana & Dianus' information and I will pass that on to Lori who will speak with them directly. It seems that lots gets lost in translation. However, I did just speak with Lori and she is planning on contacting either Dianus/Diana or yourself next week.

    ReplyDelete
  6. You have my phone number sent to your email and left on your business voice meil. Arch Priestess Diana is awaiting Lori's call as is Dianus yours.

    Next week? Why? So you can continue your little Witch War over the weekend on Yahoo?

    We are here now and awaiting your call.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Why next week? Because she has a life and is a busy woman.

    ReplyDelete
  8. And here is the most recent exchange:
    You write:


    QUOTE:
    Vinnie - "Questioning and asking for clarification is not attacking"
    Lupercus - Perhaps not. However, when we answer a question on one venue (Talking About Ritual Magick) then the accusation is repeated on a second venue (Yahoo) as though it had never been addressed, this is clearly Witch War behavior. Case in point, we already addressed the issue of the use of the names of Stregan Divinities in conjunction with our work in America. ENDQUOTE

    Vinnie - Bullshit. I was never part of whatever discussion your talking about (Talking About Ritual Magick). If you say something in more than one venue and you are questioned in each venue, then you need to take a good look at what you are saying.


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    Calling people used car salesmen and con artists is also not asking for claricication. This is also clearly Witch War behavior. ENDQUOTE

    Vinnie - Bullshit. I didn't say that you were used car salesmen and I NEVER said that you were con artists. So again, Bullshit. Never put words in my mouth. You shame yourself and your teachers.


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    Denying a person the right to respond as you have personally done on the Yahoo group is also Witch War behavior. ENDQUOTE


    Vinnie - Bullshit. I am NOT denying you a right to respond. My exact words were as follows: "Well, he has applied for membership to this group to clear up some misconceptions that he feels that we are "spreading". Normally, I would just approved the membership in the spirit of open communication but the words of his message made me feel like he is itching for a fight. His request is pending review of the list owner and the other moderators as I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to make this call."


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    When we defend Raven Griimassi on a blog, then even intervene with the blog owner to get an anonymous attack taken down, only to have Raven's students start attacking us on Yahoo, this is Witch War behavior. ENDQUOTE


    Vinnie - You have proof that the anonymous attack was one of Raven's students? Did Raven talk with them?


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    I have sent you my personal phone number and offered to put you in touch directly with Dianus and Diana. ENDQUOTE


    Vinnie - Yes, at 4:06 PM Eastern and it is now 4:45 Eastern. Less than an hour ago before you started spouting again. Forgive me, but I have a life. I have other things to do besides wait on you. I'll pass your info on to Lori when I can.


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    The time has come for you to end your little Witch War and to get real information from the source instead of merely spreading defamation. ENDQUOTE


    Vinnie - Bullshit. Don't put words in my mouth or attribute motivation to me. That, once again, is shameful.


    Lupercus - QUOTE:
    I did email you there. No response. I also tried to rebut the defamation you are publishing on Yahoo. You also refused to allow rebuttal there. These are Witch War behaviors. ENDQUOTE


    Vinnie - Yes, also very recently and apparently you think I have nothing better to do but pay attention to you. I also mentioned the status of the Yahoo group previously so go back and read that. You need to stop these sophomoric antics, you're embarrassing yourself and your teachers.

    ReplyDelete
  9. QUOTE:
    Vinnie - "Questioning and asking for clarification is not attacking"
    Lupercus - Perhaps not. However, when we answer a question on one venue (Talking About Ritual Magick) then the accusation is repeated on a second venue (Yahoo) as though it had never been addressed, this is clearly Witch War behavior. Case in point, we already addressed the issue of the use of the names of Stregan Divinities in conjunction with our work in America. ENDQUOTE

    Vinnie - Bullshit. I was never part of whatever discussion your talking about (Talking About Ritual Magick). If you say something in more than one venue and you are questioned in each venue, then you need to take a good look at what you are saying.

    Lupercus:
    Oh. I guess that the comment at the below link was written by a Reverend Vincent Russo imposter then. See our response in the same thread. I would cross post the answer to Yahoo and answer all of the other issues, had you not CENSORED us there. And yes, this too is WITCH WAR behavior.
    http://fraterbarrabbas.blogspot.com/2011/01/art-of-rational-thinking-and-mutual.html

    ReplyDelete
  10. Ah, honest mistake. I didn't realize that the name of the blog was "Talking About Ritual Magick". I thought it was simply "Frater Barrabbas Tiresius".

    As stated, you were not censored. You are however being aggressively manipulative. All potential members of the Yahoo group are comprised of family and other Strega traditions. Everyone interested must be approved and I don't have the sole authority. I chose to neither approve nor disapprove your membership until we knew more about you.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I just spoke with Raven Grimassi on the phone. I apologize to him for having believed that he was double dealing with my teachers instead of going directly to him when Diana & Dianus were attacked by Gaia, one of his initiates this morning.

    By all appearances, Raven was not aware of the attacks on our Tradition the Yahoo group moderated by Rev. Russo. Aparently, his student Gaia was acting in ignorance and without the approval of Raven Grimassi.

    Diana & Dianus have been very hurt by all of these attacks today on Yahoo. Diana said:

    "In Italy, we are known for our hospitality. How can it be that we leave everything behind in Italy to bring this knowledge to America and this is how we are received?"
    "How can it be that those who call themselves Stregheria practitioners receive guests from thier own faith in Italy - and receive them not with the love of Diana, but with fear and defamation?"
    "We are very saddened by all of this. All of these quarrels belong to Patriarchal religion. Stregheria is pure love."

    ReplyDelete
  12. Diana and Dianus have not been attacked, nor have they been insulted. You, Lupercus, have taken my words and manipulated them into lies and that is not acceptable. What has been attacked is your way at manipulating things so you (incorrectly) appear to be the victim. I look forward to seeing Diana and Dianus at Pantheacon so this can be made clear. In Their Service.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I just see all these comments and my eyes cross. What is even going on the Streghe community?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Nick, this was from 2 years ago so the comments are old and out of date and, as far as I know, the situation has resolved itself. For the most part the Streghe community/communities (La Vecchia Religione, Stregheria, Stregoneria, etc.) get along quite well and are content to each do our own thing and let others do their own thing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh they were... /facepalm
      I didn't read the date, sorry. I was looking this up on Raven Grimassi's site and I saw him make mention of this, I hadn't realized it was resolved.

      Again I apologize :(

      Delete